MagneticScrolls Sketchbook - Starting from the beginning again
#61
If there no class availble in your area i am sure you can find online class for a reasonable price but i suggest you learn how to do proper research there alot of online resource there even a resource section on this forum you should really check it out but you should invest time looking for art content on youtube.

About mentor there little chance you will find a mentor because most of the person who would be mentor are allready art teacher so there not gonna do 1 on 1 session.Those who would do 1 on 1 would be probably less worth to learn from but atleast you get a faster learning curve because you don't have to seek the teacher attention like you would in a art class.

For art job you better not look locally because there the internet now and people use it to find the best person to fill the job.

I think what you really missing is the tool to learn by yourself.

For example do you own any art book?
Do you watch any art tutorial online?
How much time can you spend per day on art?

Those are question you should have answered for yourself already.But i would still like to know.

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#62
(09-20-2018, 08:19 PM)darktiste Wrote: If there no class availble in your area i am sure you can find online class for a reasonable price but i suggest you learn how to do proper research there alot of online resource there even a resource section on this forum you should really check it out but you should invest time looking for art content on youtube.

About mentor there little chance you will find a mentor because most of the person who would be mentor are allready art teacher so there not gonna do 1 on 1 session.Those who would do 1 on 1 would be probably less worth to learn from but atleast you get a faster learning curve because you don't have to seek the teacher attention like you would in a art class.

For art job you better not look locally because there the internet now and people use it to find the best person to fill the job.

I think what you really missing is the tool to learn by yourself.

For example do you own any art book?
Do you watch any art tutorial online?
How much time can you spend per day on art?

Those are question you should have answered for yourself already.But i would still like to know.


There are classes in my area but, they're extremely terrible. I could never get any sort of critique out of the instructors. Nobody seems to care about the quality of any of the work that is produced and all they ever do is shower students with compliments. It is unproductive and very frustrating.I have found it impossible to get anything useful out of them. No matter what I ask or beg them what is wrong with my work they simply tell me there is no need to worry and that I am doing fine. In some cases they've even told me not to listen to people who have anything negative to say about my work. There is absolutely no consideration for quality or craft in these classes.
I would have love to have gotten into an art school but, every one of them I applied for rejected me. At this point a decent class lead by an instruct who cares about craft and technique would be a dream.

I have seen tons of online art courses but, never any reviews for these sorts of things. Occasionally the websites that host the courses will have testimoinals but, I have never considered them to be reliable. Outside of that people rarely speak about them
My greatest concern with online courses is that they'll either go over basic concepts very, very quickly  then expect the viewer to have them down or simply not cover them. I feel I need something that goes far more indepth than usual on foundaion skills because I find myself struggling with them. Having 1 on 1 sessions with some one would solve this as well as give me feed back that I wouldn't get anywhere else but, if it isn't an option I need to look into something else.

Where online can I find an entry level job in this field? Also what would an entry level job consist of exactly? I'm still fairly low skilled and my draftsmanship is poor at best.

I own several anatomy books. I have no idea on what to do with them though. I don't seem to gain anything from attempting to anaylze the figures inside. Almost nothing comes from copying the figures either. I have 2 or 3 books laying around name "Anatomy for the artist" and all of charles bargue, andrew loomis as well as Brune Hogarth.


Yes, I have seen several tutorials on Youtube. They don't go as indepth on anything which is why I'm looking into something else. Ctrl Paint goes by too quickly for me to really grasp anything on. I don't find Proko's videos to be informative nor Scyra.

I spend anywhere between 2 to 6 hours per day on drawing. Unfortunately my job is very unstable so I can end up working anywhere between 6 to 60 hours per week. It's also not very predictable. I can be called up to 1 hour in advance and be told I need to head somewhere over 60 miles away to do something.
Not to mention I'm terribly slow when it comes to draw. It takes me 2 to 4 times as long to do a drawing compared to other people. Sometimes all I'm told is to spend more time on something when I don't know what else can be done aside from starting all over again.


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I asked around the discord about some of my issues and I've basically been told it might be best for me to practice more of the line exercises and to go back to draw a box since I'm having so much trouble rotating heads. I don't seem to be doing well with Loomis's teachings at all.
Drawabox is also extremely difficult but maybe I need to just keep trying until it makes sense. I don't know really. I failed to drawing a rotated cube. at extreme angles the cube becomes distorted and I end stretching it in ways I do not intend to.
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#63
My advice would be to still be near artist even if the teacher doesn't specially care for you.I know the feeling there alway talent people who seem to draw all the attention.It rare to find teacher who really understand there role in giving everyone equal chance of sucess.One of the main thing you need first to figure out is how other study.Copy for the sake of copying can really slow your progress.You have to shift your state of mind into an analytic one.

I got a small post for you that might help you unlock the way it possible to shift to this state of mind.

http://crimsondaggers.com/forum/thread-4107.html


The problem with most tutorial is you have to figure out how to translate them into useful practice.
I would say one of your problem at the moment is your not aware of how wrong your angle are.You could make 1 drawing instead of 3 but you seem to not bother making a correct drawing you take 3 shot when you could make it in 1 or 2.
You also have little control of your stroke you often overshot your line.It not bad but it can be done with intention not by accident.

My advice keep drawing cube and learn more about perspective at moment i would say you should stop shading and simply try to interpret image in the language of line.Also breaking down the face into basic form to slowly come to a more accurate result.

One good exercise you can do that can help you practice accurate drawing is to take and image and flip it upside down and to copy it it seem stupid but it useful because it shift how your brain interpret what you see you look more at the image and you interpret less.

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#64
Hey Magnetic, I would say you are moving in the right direction. Your heads are starting to show some appreciation of perspective, probably because of your drawabox and Loomis exercises.

What I'd encourage you to do now is slow down, when you are doing a cube carefully trace the edges back to the appropriate vanishing points. Ghost through your lines before you draw them.

Another useful exercise is to trace over a photo ref. with some construction lines, e.g. take a head ref. and trace a Loomis construction over it. This should help you link construction with real life and help you when you try to construct from your imagination.

Hope that helps, keep going fella, you're moving in the right direction :).

“Today, give a stranger one of your smiles. It might be the only sunshine he sees all day.” -- H. Jackson Brown Jr.

CD Sketchbook



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#65
(10-09-2018, 03:16 PM)darktiste Wrote: My advice would be to still be near artist even if the teacher doesn't specially care for you.I know the feeling there alway talent people who seem to draw all the attention.It rare to find teacher who really understand there role in giving everyone equal chance of sucess.One of the main thing you need first to figure out is how other study.Copy for the sake of copying can really slow your progress.You have to shift your state of mind into an analytic one.

I got a small post for you that might help you unlock the way it possible to shift to this state of mind.

http://crimsondaggers.com/forum/thread-4107.html


The problem with most tutorial is you have to figure out how to translate them into useful practice.
I would say one of your problem at the moment is your not aware of how wrong your angle are.You could make 1 drawing instead of 3 but you seem to not bother making a correct drawing you take 3 shot when you could make it in 1 or 2.
You also have little control of your stroke you often overshot your line.It not bad but it can be done with intention not by accident.

My advice keep drawing cube and learn more about perspective at moment i would say you should stop shading and simply try to interpret image in the language of line.Also breaking down the face into basic form to slowly come to a more accurate result.

One good exercise you can do that can help you practice accurate drawing is to take and image and flip it upside down and to copy it it seem stupid but it useful because it shift how your brain interpret what you see you look more at the image and you interpret less.
Well the teachers in these classes make no effort to teach anything at all. They just tell everyone they are good and to draw what they feel. Sometimes they tell their students to ignore criticism all together.

Yes, I realize my line control is very poor and I've been trying to improve it but to no success. I have been breaking the face down into a simplistic form with the Loomis I was practicing. It has little effect though.

I did a couple more draw a box attempts before giving up on it. It's too complicated for me even at the most basic level. I really don't understand how to progress though that site. The videos aren't helpful in any manner.

I have been flipping my drawing upside down. I try to correct what I see but then when I flip it right side up it's still wrong, just in a different manner.





(10-09-2018, 11:26 PM)Artloader Wrote: Hey Magnetic, I would say you are moving in the right direction. Your heads are starting to show some appreciation of perspective, probably because of your drawabox and Loomis exercises.

What I'd encourage you to do now is slow down, when you are doing a cube carefully trace the edges back to the appropriate vanishing points.  Ghost through your lines before you draw them.

Another useful exercise is to trace over a photo ref. with some construction lines, e.g. take a head ref. and trace a Loomis construction over it.  This should help you link construction with real life and help you when you try to construct from your imagination.

Hope that helps, keep going fella, you're moving in the right direction :).

Drawabox is very complicated. I feel like I'm missing most of the point of it.
I have been drawing over the references but, only fairly basic things like the brow line and angle of the center of the face. I can't seem to get the sphere in the correct position for some reason when I draw over it.



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I haven't posted in a while but here are the latest drawings I have. The guys in discord told me to try drawing things i liked and to do some studies so I chose a couple of pieces of box art from some old video games. Sadly things did not go well with those images. I failed to fit the characters into the correct places, possibly due to proportion issues that I have. This really shows my lack of anatomical knowledge as well. I just feel like I don't have the tools to tackle projects like this.
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#66
Well when you try to learn art you can't give up easly or you will just fall back on old habit that aren"t constructive to a well polish approch to drawing this will result in alot of wasted time.I know how easy it is to be tempted to do pretty drawing.But think of an house you can't build a good looking house if the foundation are wrong it will be easy for anyone to spot how poor the construction is.

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#67
I wanted to start The Keys to Drawing but, unfortunately I found myself getting sidetracked with portraits. I found myself frustrated with improving so I ended up focusing on them instead of starting with the book

(11-07-2018, 03:15 PM)darktiste Wrote: Well when you try to learn art you can't give up easly or you will just fall back on old habit that aren"t constructive to a well polish approch to drawing this will result in alot of wasted time.I know how easy it is to be tempted to do pretty drawing.But think of an house you can't build a good looking house if the foundation are wrong it will be easy for anyone to spot how poor the construction is.

I suppose I will need to give it another try. I'm just sad that I'm not progressing as steadily as I had hoped. I'm disappointed in my own abilities.



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#68
I am seeing improvement keep going.But you have to give them there really proportion stick to what you see not what your brain want to see.Yes the brain is playing trick on you like cutting head for example.The reason is the brain is good at seeing face but for most of it translation of reality it store information in the form of symbol rather than high definition image so it good to practice the 10 second method never spend more than 10second looking away from the reference.Also a good thing to practice is framing because sometime beginner have problem fitting subject inside a limited space and will often have to compress image because they under estimated the space the subject would take on the page.A trick i like is to draw smaller or to draw on bigger sheet of paper but ultimately you should learn to draw in a limited space.

The problem is that without a construction method you are lock to what ever reference you have it limit greatly the possiblity.

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#69
(11-20-2018, 12:44 AM)darktiste Wrote: I am seeing improvement keep going.But you have to give them there really proportion stick to what you see not what your brain want to see.Yes the brain is playing trick on you like cutting head for example.The reason is the brain is good at seeing face but for most of it translation of reality it store information in the form of symbol rather than high definition image so it good to practice the 10 second method never spend more than 10second looking away from the reference.Also a good thing to practice is framing because sometime beginner have problem fitting subject inside a limited space and will often have to compress image because they under estimated the space the subject would take on the page.A trick i like is to draw smaller or to draw on bigger sheet of paper but ultimately you should learn to draw in a limited space.

The problem is that without a construction method you are lock to what ever reference you have it limit greatly the possiblity.
I wish I could see the improvement but to me, it's mostly the same. I have the same issues as before and very little has changed. I just don't think I'm doing well at all.

I usually do try to keep my eyes on the reference most of the time but, for some reason i find it hard to keep proportion.
I thought I had a construction method with what I had learned from the Andrew Loomis books but, it appears that I have failed to understand major aspects of those books. I suppose I should start from the beginning of Fun with a Pencil once again then.
I start with Loomis's methods but I find I need to make major changes (move the browline, shorten the jaw line, re arrange various features on the face).

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#70
Doing heads well, even from reference requires a lot of complex stacked skills and knowledge to work in concert. It would be more beneficial to go back to more basic and easier challenge first and build up. While some of your finals are certainly improving and you are capturing likeness better you still seem to be spinning your wheels on the same thing over and over.

In the discord or perhaps some other times people have recommended observational studies of bargue drawings, cast studies, skull studies, studies of the asaro head, and ofc even more drawing basic primitive objects in various perspectives but it seems you ignored that advice or aren't posting them.

Question: do you measure angles and linear relationships at all when drawing from reference? Comparative measurement is very useful to be able to check whether you are nailing the same angles and proportions of all the various features/landmarks. Dorien Iten explained a bit about this fairly simply but it may require more explanation...do you use it in any of these studies?

I have been studying at an atelier of sorts recently and found this guy who is or was a Watts student. Their process for portraits is rigorous and strong so i am learning a new appreciation for having a process and sticking to it as well as not being lazy with my measuring. He has some videos that show in real-time this process perhaps not all with full explanation but it may be useful for you to watch. This vid is him doing loomis studies https://youtu.be/FnTbqPIkuX0 and he has some on constructive features but also the 20 minute head layins combine the entire Reilly method of head drawing and should be informative to watch. He also explains what he is doing for many of them though it's not specifically a lecture type channel. This is not in lieu of also going back to more basic exercises as mentioned before

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#71
(12-14-2018, 03:13 PM)Amit Dutta Wrote: Doing heads well, even from reference requires a lot of complex stacked skills and knowledge to work in concert. It would be more beneficial to go back to more basic and easier challenge first and build up. While some of your finals are certainly improving and you are capturing likeness better you still seem to be spinning your wheels on the same thing over and over.

In the discord or perhaps some other times people have recommended observational studies of bargue drawings, cast studies, skull studies, studies of the asaro head, and ofc even more drawing basic primitive objects in various perspectives but it seems you ignored that advice or aren't posting them.

Question: do you measure angles and linear relationships at all when drawing from reference? Comparative measurement is very useful to be able to check whether you are nailing the same angles and proportions of all the various features/landmarks. Dorien Iten explained a bit about this fairly simply but it may require more explanation...do you use it in any of these studies?

I have been studying at an atelier of sorts recently and found this guy who is or was a Watts student. Their process for portraits is rigorous and strong so i am learning a new appreciation for having a process and sticking to it as well as not being lazy with my measuring.  He has some videos that show in real-time this process perhaps not all with full explanation but it may be useful for you to watch. This vid is him doing loomis studies https://youtu.be/FnTbqPIkuX0 and he has some on constructive features but also the 20 minute head layins combine the entire Reilly method of head drawing and should be informative to watch. He also explains what he is doing for many of them though it's not specifically a lecture type channel. This is not in lieu of also going back to more basic exercises as mentioned before
I wanted to focus in something that I feel I'm lacking in so I chose portraits. Unfortunately I haven't gotten that much better. It just frustrates me that it takes me so long to produce such poor (and inaccurate) results.

I have been working on Burt Dodson's Keys to drawing between portaits but, yes I should probably get on the other things (primitive objects, asaro heads,casts and skulls). I suppose I need stop with tunnel vision.

Yes, I attempt to measure angles and even draw over my source image before working on construction. It seems that I exaggerate these angles. Everything I draw ends up having faces or heads tilting too far or not far enough. Maybe I'm not seeing what Dorien is doing. I'll go back over his videos again.

Bradwynn is pretty accurate with his loomis heads; I really need to take a long look at that video and see how to properly do this myself.

For the next few weeks I'll try going back to primitive objects in perspective. I have a few boxes (plus tons of books) sitting around I can set up. They would just be standard rectilinear shapes. Nothing too complex.
The Asaro heads will also be a priority.


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#72
Copying is an operation of accuracy not of quantity.The only reason you would have additional portrait is if you really work to fast.A drawing should be build in a manageable approach for a beginner.I recommend you go see the #41 post of this thread where i shown you a few technique to visually measure and construction the head.If you avoid loomis you will be kinda doom to copying and will not be able to invent your own stuff.Drawing realistic object inside box is the basis of drawing.

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#73
Better likenesses again esp that dude with the moustache but yeah I think you finally really do need to stop grinding on portraits so much at this point. They are one of the hardest things to get down well. I am STILL confused why and how far 'off' the first iterations of those portraits are. Why do you do that...what is the purpose of allowing yourself to be so sloppy? All you are training is how to draw sloppy shit. Calm down slow down. You really aren't taking advantage of the advice given in the discord and here so I hope you do change it up as you mentioned :)

Having said that the photos you are picking are not ideal. Use ones with one single light source that cast noticeable shadows across the forms, at first. You want to be able to see distinct shadows because that makes it easier to identify, map and then describe form easier. Here are some examples i save on pinterest..not all great but most follow that rule. https://pin.it/vpbvknrvnepez2

I like your dedication but it might be better to focus on the more fundamental things first..such as drawing basic primitive forms believably. Beginners often speed through the actual fundamentals exercises like a schizophrenic thinking just because they spent a bit of time on it they get it. You can see it is very common esp on this forum lol. I like that you aren't doing that but you will get more 'traction' by actually slowing down and training the basics first

You might want to consider online subscription to watts or NMA. Watts has structured basic exercises and video demos with a logical meaningful progression and challenge build up. and I think you would do better with at least some curriculum to follow even if not IRL

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