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A lot of you guys are having mixed opinions on the "like" button, so I created a poll here on the forums and a straw poll here:
Like Button Poll you can also leave your discussions about it in here to help me decide.
Although, I kind of see both viewpoints.
1. One side doesn't want the like button back because they believe it discourages commenting.
2. The other side believes that the like button doesn't affect commenting, but is instead, rather just a quick way to show that they've seen and visited your post.
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Damn, I just don't know, really. Likes makes me feel anxious in more than one way (as far as removing something that didn't gather any), but then any kind of counter on social media does that.
So I'm torn between keep it and forcing me to deal with it - or just get rid of it altogether (as I have done with user-side addons to remove like, tweeters followers count)
Though, overall, I also prefer comments, I have also been guilty of quickly liking things on other's people thread when in a hurry.
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Yep y'all know my view about it.
We're trying to get this community pumping again, however I don't feel it'll reach its potential adding the like button back. Writing a comment means so much more than just pressing a button -although yes, I can understand where you guys are coming from with the "lack of time" issues and thus ease of access having the button is. But in the end, anything that takes a bit of time and effort is worthwhile. I feel liking stuff has always been a "can't be bothered writing a comment" or "if I like this, they'll come to my sketchbook" - there's no real love with the button.
Not gonna lie, I abused it when I had it, but honestly, I noticed in the end that I went from serial commenter to hit and run liker. The thing is, when I was commenting, I really took the time to go through sketchbooks. If I hadn't been there before I'd start from the beginning ~ and yes it was time consuming, but I'd just continue viewing in lunch breaks, when I stretch for 5mins etc, - then when it comes to their recent work, I feel like I know them and so commenting is like nothing and I know whtto say.
But anyway, enough rambling, all I'm sayin' is if the like button comes back, imo commenting and being more involved in the community will decrease. Unless y'all can prove me wrong, in which case - please do!
Speaking from someone who fckin loves the daggers,
Former and present active memberina,
- smrr
sketchbook | pg 52
"Not a single thing in this world isn't in the process of becoming something else."
I'll be back - it's an odyssey, after all
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In my opinion, having the like button is just turning the forum into who has the most amount of likes, while that's not a bad thing, I believe, what we seek for is not a like, but comments from actual peoples.
I mean if I really wanted likes, I would just post stuffs on facebook/instagram, they already do that kind of job. Why do the same thing on a forum? Sure it saves you time to just hit the like button, for the creator to see, you do care.
But is it really showing a genuine response? In my opinion, it's not. What we need, is actual response. That's how I see this. And a lot of forums are facing the issue of sketchbooks not receiving any replies at all, even when the person is actually commentating on others sketchbook.
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I voted yes, but actually I don't think either way will be a big a deal.
Seems to me the real issue appears to be one of true engagement vs the perception of engagement.
Many people against it, seem to be arguing that the presence of a like button somehow has some supreme power over their own conscious decision to take time to comment and/or help others.
Honestly if it does dissuade someone from doing so then the real problem isn't the like button, it's a lack of any true desire to help in that person. Making it disappear won't somehow magically incline people to be more altruistic; this is a nice fantasy. They will just do absolutely nothing at all.
Personally speaking I have never deferred writing a comment or offering critique for clicking the like button instead when I know I have something constructive to say that I think will help. I'm not bragging, but I spend a lot of time trying to help people. This is a choice I have consciously made because of my observations of how miserly people seem to be with their time and effort even when they do bother. So I make the effort and it is its own reward almost every time. Although to be honest I have slowed down a lot more recently, because I am much busier now and it gets a little tiring to be more active in a forum where most of the activity is people posting their own work first and foremost only in their own sketchbooks.
The issue people have brought up seems to be about the like button not promoting engagement. if people want more engagement, then each and every one of us has to decide to comment more whether the button is there or not. It is easy to make it a scapegoat rather than looking at your own interaction level and why that might be lacking.
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I absolutely agree with amit, the like button hasn't been here for two days and the comments from my user CP are just as scarce or infrequent as before. it feels really strange with it not being there and i know that if you say, write up a big crit for someone, not everyone is gonna fly in and say, hey good crit man. The likes take care of that if you want to know people read it; i mean ofcourse the rep works, but i feel less people are inclined to do it since it takes an extra step.
Comments are very awesome, but very very scarce on any art forum. Unless! you're very very good. It kinda feels unfair that you may only get scraps of feedback and maybe a juicy crit every couple of months, but people who are very good get like 8-10 comments between posts. But i haven't seen that since rafa stopped hanging around here as much. Even the best people here are lucky to get 3 or 4 comments between posts; achieving crazy awesome results. Its kinda hard to gauge things if just one person tells you they like your stuff, and that could be related to the like button but who knows!
Back on CA (2008ish) you could barely post once a week and get like 6 comments in between... man, i wished i coulda been around at that time. And i've never in my time on these seen a sketchbook that gets an entire page of comments between posts. Hell i don't even think there's a SB on here that gets over 80 pages. But if you think about it, this communities more private, much less traffic, so that's 50 some pages of just work and a few comments, and who knows whether we learn faster or slower than CA people.
There are some people on here who are really really really good and promising and i think, had they been on CA in like 2009, they would be superstars, but the opposite is true around here. We're just a smaller community, and we're all adults, there are barely any kids on here who don't take art very very seriously. I also think if there were just more people browsing this forum alot of those good people would get alot more jobs; But that's not within our control, nor was it the purpose of this forum.
It's very very motivating to see a post you made get 3 or more likes. It's also very motivating to get a comment so... Idk if we were all at the finer hours of our art journeys like dave or someone, it wouldn't really be an issue... but none of us are.
And if you really think about what i just wrote... It really isn't a big deal at all; it's just an outlet for encouragement or feedback on our artistic journeys, whether the like button is there or not
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I just wished I could like your post Fedo, but I will write a comment instead.
I like your post
Oh hell I upped your rep. And actually everyone gets a rep up from me for replying to this post haha. Maybe it does work?? :P
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Actually now that I think about it, instead of the like system, peoples could use the rep system. After all, you can leave a comment at the same time you're rating. Unless, of course, you leave it blank... haha
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I forgot to say that I do really like the rep system because it actually has motivated me to keep helping, purely as a selfish thrill to see my "rep" tick up, even though ultimately that's not at all why I do it. (kinda like HabitRPG)
I'm not sure if people are really that aware of it though? I have no idea really.
Facebook has made me hate the like-hunting phenomenon, but in the forum context I feel it doesn't have quite the same connotations. We have all probably actually commented on someone's stuff as well as only liked some of their posts. There is probably a greater history of interaction between the people getting and giving likes in general.
Facebook likes tend to be way more random and anonymous.
And much of the best crit I have given people from CD has been off forum, through skype or facebook or whatever. Sometimes it is just easier to talk to someone then sit there for half an hour banging away at a crit.
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Like, comments and rep seem like very different systems to me - not sure why they must exclude each other.
I comment if I have anything to say - good, bad, neutral, encouragement, random joke - even a short one. What I don't like doing too often are "empty" comments though - like one or two words ("nice!") without anything else to offer - it quickly feels repetitive to me and if I don't want to bother writing more.
So that's what the like button is for - a quick notice to the artist/friend that I have visited their sketchbook, seen their newest post, and (obviously) like it. Just a quick heads up, might come back later and comment, or comment another time after another post.
Rep system is something I use more rare than likes - for outstanding posts, more helpful than average critiques, or some post or advice that really moved/helped me, anything that's really special or makes me really grateful for some reason. I think it is doing a good job "rewarding" or pointing out some of the really helpful folks around here - although I doubt anyone needs it to be the way or as helpful they are.
That said, I am happy with however this decision will end up being - if people think removing likes will increase more direct communication and interaction between peope, why not! It's just one feature of many and certainly not the main purpose of this forum :)
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I'd say give it a little time and see if comments increase. I do agree with Lyraina about likes reducing the number of half assed comments just to comment and nothing of substance. Id rather see one thoughtful comment than 10 comments saying "great job keep pushing!" But maybe people lean on the using likes too much than having to think of something to say. Im definitely guilty of abusing it >.>
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(06-21-2015, 10:56 AM)Fedodika Wrote: Back on CA (2008ish) you could barely post once a week and get like 6 comments in between... man, i wished i coulda been around at that time. And i've never in my time on these seen a sketchbook that gets an entire page of comments between posts. Hell i don't even think there's a SB on here that gets over 80 pages. But if you think about it, this communities more private, much less traffic, so that's 50 some pages of just work and a few comments, and who knows whether we learn faster or slower than CA people.
Haha off-topic, but CA sketchbooks tended to have so many pages in them because there's a lower comment cap than Crimson Daggers has.
CA's cap is at like 13 replies per page, Daggers is at like 20?
I prefer the 20 reply per page cap though. More art on every page as opposed to comments :D
sketchbook | pg 52
"Not a single thing in this world isn't in the process of becoming something else."
I'll be back - it's an odyssey, after all
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At first i wanted it back, but now i noticed that the forum seems more alive, now everyone is actually talking and giving feedback which is the point, so no need to bring it back
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That's a tough choice. I'm not entirely sure if likes are reducing the amount of comments on the forum. For me it's really hard to post beacause english is not my first language and the difficulty doubles when you have to write something meaningful and helpful. Maybe let's go the hard way and dismiss likes completely. I promise myself to write more and with fresh new forum upgrade that's a good moment.
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(06-23-2015, 11:48 PM)Farvus Wrote: That's a tough choice. I'm not entirely sure if likes are reducing the amount of comments on the forum. For me it's really hard to post beacause english is not my first language and the difficulty doubles when you have to write something meaningful and helpful. Maybe let's go the hard way and dismiss likes completely. I promise myself to write more and with fresh new forum upgrade that's a good moment.
English is not my native Language neither, so to me, I see that more of an excuse if anyone states that's the reason they do not comment. (hopefully I'm not attacking you in any way)
Just showing that, you shouldn't let that hold you back. After all, through doing, you learn.
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Hmm think I might change my stance on this to not bringing back the button, honestly it never made a difference to me as i'm terrible with trying to critique people anyway so I usually end up having to give a like or general compliment on their work but the forums do seem a bit livelier now that it's gone, though that could be less to do with the button and more to do with the update to the site in general.
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If you like someone work it always possible to come up with a critique. I can agree that it not alway easy to come up with something constructive to say if you know little to nothing about the principle of art.But being able to give critique is in my eye a valuable skill for any artist who wish to improve is own work and help him master the vocabulary of art that is essential to communicate with other artist.
I would like to share 3 link that i think might benefit anyone who want to improve there critique skill.
Critique
Step 1
Benefiting from critique
http://artists.pixelovely.com/benefiting-from-critique/
Step 2
How to give a good critique
http://artists.pixelovely.com/giving-good-critique/
Video
http://www.ctrlpaint.com/videos/critique
My Sketchbook
Perfection is unmeasurable therefor it impossible to reach it.
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I'm pretty used to using English as first language now, and still it takes me a lot of time to think of something specific to say, and sometimes I can't think long enough and end up writing a short comment that really sounds generic.... <--guilty.
Commenting in sketchbook is - to me - a way of waving at fellow artist, letting them know that throughout all our struggles at each of our stages of learning, we're not alone! I don't know 'bout you all but I regularly feel lonely when things are hard - struggling with getting better in my art, or struggling to get to my art outside day job. When I see someone commenting in my sketchbook, I get reminded that I'm not alone, and it helps!
I know it takes a lot of time to write comments, so don't feel obliged to write in 10, 20 sketchbooks every week. Just do what you can, and when we each do our bits, they all add up to be a bustling Crimson Daggers!
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Hmmm this is tough. When I first saw this thread, I voted yes before reading all the comments but now I'm not sure.... It's true that like can be a quick and dirty excuse to not comment, but I don't know, I don't think I ever did that. I liked all the comments my SB got, as a way to say thank you, and any really helpful or inspiring posts anywhere else. If I liked a post on someone else's SB, it usually was a way to say "dang I really like your work," in addition to making an actual comment. So for me, I enjoyed having the like button.
But if other people were doing that, it might entice them to make more meaningful comments, but chances are it won't. I'll admit that rep is a nice system, and perhaps now that likes are gone people will hand out rep more often. Personally, I only upped someone's rep if they were either really consistent in offering comments or if they really went out of their way to make a meaningful, helpful comment.
I agree with Adam and let's see how it goes for a few more weeks and see if comments do increase over that time. If they do, drops the likes.
Also off-topic, but when I was a member of CA, around 2011-ish, the sketchbooks were nuts. Sure, some had tons of comments but most had one or two for every five posts from the OP. And they were getting updated so often that you'd post some work and then it'd get pushed back to the second page within 24 hours. That's why I left, I thought the ratio of giving vs receiving was way off, and I think it's much more proportionate here. We have less people just posting their own work and that's all, I think more people are actually giving with at least a 1:1 ratio.
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